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Illinois Thu Dec 02 2010

Unexpected Vote For IL Rep. On Bush Tax Cuts

Earlier today the U.S. House of Representatives voted on whether to bring the Bush tax cuts up for debate. The ending tally was 213 in favor, 203 against. Thirty Democrats voted against and of those 30 three are from Illinois (Melissa Bean, Jerry Costello, and Dan Lipinski). Congressman Lipinski's name stuck out to me considering his fairly progressive record on tax reform.

A spokesman from Lipinski's office explained that the Congressman voted against the measure because a yea vote would have meant there would be no opportunity to amend the bill.

"He did not like the way the rules were used to deny any type of amendment," Lipinski spokesman Nathaniel Zimmer said. "It would be his preference that there would be a temporary extension of the cuts for all earners and he would like to be able to vote for an amendment to that effect. It's his expectation that in the end there will be a temporary extension for all earners. He believes that this is a very fragile recovery and that raising taxes on anyone right now poses an unacceptable risk to that recovery."

Zimmer also told me that Lipinski planned on voting for extending the middle class tax cuts (that vote passed but when I talked to Zimmer it was a few minutes away) and expected an the Bush cats to be extended for all earners.

Although Lipinski wants to extend tax cuts for all earners most House Democrats are in favor of extending the tax cuts for everyone except the very wealthy. Republicans have mostly been in favor of extending the cuts for everyone.

 
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WAJ / December 3, 2010 3:14 PM

Tax cuts or current tax rates? I like how people phrase the issue that the tax rates that have been in place for almost a decade are referred to as abnormal and as temporary, rather than the real tax rates. Especially when one compromise is to "temporarily" keep them in place for two years. If two years is temporary, wouldn't a tax structure that has been in place for 8+ years be non-temporary?

I guess it helps the psychology of asking people to support raising taxes if you pretend that reality is something other than what it is.

Exit question: Would it be ethical if a power company advertised its current rates (and unchanged for the previous 8+ years) as temporary in order to raise its rates for future consumption?

tofubo / December 3, 2010 8:11 PM

Exit question: Would it be ethical if a power company advertised its current rates (and unchanged for the previous 8+ years) as temporary in order to raise its rates for future consumption?

yes, if only they were losing money for your shareholders the past eight years to get your business

thanks for playing

WAJ / December 4, 2010 9:03 AM

"yes, if only they were losing money for your shareholders the past eight years to get your business"

Interesting. So then ethical behavior is based on the relative opinion of one's balance sheet (and really only one side of the ledger). How progressive.

I guess that is the logic used to justify an organization that lobbies for federal healthcare and then cuts healthcare benefits for its members.

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010/11/20/union-drops-health-coverage-for-workers-children/

check/mate

Jeff Smith / December 4, 2010 3:24 PM

Lipinski did vote for the cut once it came to the floor.

As to the big "tax increase," to prates if the middle-class tax cut passes without a similar extension for those above $250,000 (or $1M) would still be far below what they were for most of the Reagan administration when we had 50% rates for the top bracket. Believe me, every accountant and tax lawyer in the US -- and top earners all have at least one if not both -- knew the 2001 cuts were temporary and has been looking at this coming for years.

tofubo / December 4, 2010 3:52 PM

from yonder link, "[the affiliate of the Service Employees International Union] said the state compelled the fund to start buying coverage from a third party, which increased premiums by 60%"

the health care overhaul passed by congress does nothing but make money for the insurance companies and has no relationship on the comment you made earlier, the major health insurers stock prices are up 5% to 45% over the past year, all well and good, but not when people (or union's) premiums are continuing to go up double digits every year for that performance to continue

purposefully taking in less money is all well and good if you want to shrink the size of government, that's a real argument you can make, and many people have, are, and will continue to do so

but, we be 14 trillion in debt, how's about paying that down first and then lowering everybody's taxes

we've been digging a bigger hole every year the previous eight years the lower rates have been in effect (5.6 billion in debt when the first MBA president took office, almost 10 billion when he left), congress has been spending (dems and repubs) more and more anyway

keep making your argument, but act on it when we ain't 14 trillion in debt, thanks

and ethics has nothing to do with selling a product that is a loss leader, or selling @ a lower price than the competition to gain market share

'conservative free market principles' are great in theory, but we've seen them in action, we've had those lower rates the past almost 10 years now, in theory, we should be awash in surpluses with hardly no unemployment, this must be the vaunted mccain/gramm "mental recession" and doing the same thing over again will somehow make this shit not stink ?? or are we just whining ??

WAJ / December 4, 2010 4:35 PM

Its a false statement that current tax rates "cost" a government "X" amount of money, because "X" only exists when a fictitious rate is applied. If the statement was true, then why stop at "X"? You could then say that not raising taxes to 100% costs the government "X+N".

Only the economic illiterate would consider a) federal income tax or b) power rates as "loss leaders". (psst - loss leaders aren't primary revenue sources)

Take a look at what brings in the most money for the federal coffers: http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article/0,,id=102886,00.html

... and then square that up with the fact that 47% of households pay no income tax.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm

The argument for raising taxes is essentially the same as a bank robber's - "That's where the money is" and "we want it"

- I do think it is great that people realize that the crown jewel of the progressive era will be a healthcare reform bill that increases the cost of healthcare. Its been a foolish experiment all around.

david bil / January 3, 2011 10:34 AM

conservative free market principles' are great in theory, but we've seen them in action, we've had those lower rates the past almost 10 years now, in theory, we should be awash in surpluses with hardly no unemployment, this must be the vaunted mccain/gramm "mental recession" and doing the same thing over again will somehow make this shit not stink ?? or are we just whining ??
.pass4sure JN0-311
pass4sure JN0-350

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